The Second One With Jo O’Neil

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:00:33]:
Hello. Hello. Welcome back. Lovely to have you with us whether you’re, listening, whether you’re watching, however you’re catching us. It’s great to have you here. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day to catch another episode of the Keith Blakemore-Noble Radio Show. Today, we have, a guest who we have had before, but we’re talking about a completely different, aspect of their life and and what they do this time. And, I felt it was important enough for us to bring them back even though they’ve been a guest, in the latter part of last year.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:01:06]:
So let me, let me tell you a little bit about my guest, a little bit you might not know from from catching the last episode. Many disabled business owners, fall into self employment, and they do that because they could no longer do traditional jobs. And either they didn’t wanna just sit around or they’re doing nothing, or they needed to make ends meet, so they fall into self employment. My guest today is no different. Disability meant that they had to work from home and change the way that they did things, and that is how they became a VA. Those of you who’ve caught previous episodes, you probably worked out who the guest is. I suppose if you’ve looked at the title, you worked out who the guest is. Anyway, it was through learning to market her own business that she increasingly found what her that that’s exactly what her clients also needed.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:02:00]:
And so she’s niched to offer marketing VA services. That is my guest today, Jo O’Neil. Let’s bring you into the studio. Hey, Jo. How are you doing?

Jo O’Neil [00:02:11]:
Hi, Keith. I’m not bad. It’s been a busy week. I could sleep the rest of the week, but I have to sleep.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:02:18]:
I know that feeling. I know that feeling all too well. Well, thank you, Joe, for for for coming back. I mean, last time we we spoke all about VA, stuff and and and that side of things, but we’re exploring something completely different, this time. We’re exploring, all things disabled entrepreneur. So before Blakemore we dive into that, I guess the first question is, we know a little bit about about you, Tell us a bit more about Jo, and in particular, why are you the person to talk about disabled entrepreneurs?

Jo O’Neil [00:02:51]:
Well, as you said, I fell into employment, because I I am disabled, which they now think is fibromyalgia. And one day I might actually get that diagnosis, but maybe 5 years ago now, it became really obvious that I just get into the office was wiping me out every day. And despite the fact I loved my job, I couldn’t do it anymore. Mhmm. So I needed something to replace that I was the main owner in the household. When you go, right, I can’t do this. What can I do? And I suggested I become a VA. And as as I think I mentioned last time, that started off as very basic admin and then turned into marketing, and social media.

Jo O’Neil [00:03:35]:
So that’s sort of what I ended up falling into. Yeah. It it all stemmed from the fact that I couldn’t do a traditional 9 to 5 anymore, and I needed something to pay the bills.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:03:47]:
Yeah. Yeah. So you’re you’re saying you’re you’re hope hoping to get the the formal diagnosis. Will will will will that make a difference when you when you get that or is that just to kind of a okay. So it is that, but we just carry on with with within

Jo O’Neil [00:04:03]:
the way. There might be some more appropriate pain killers, that actually target nerve pain, which will mean I’m in less pain. So then all I’ve got to deal with is the brain fog and the fatigue, which should help.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:04:15]:
Oh, is that all? Oh, goodness. So, yeah, as as you say, your your situation isn’t isn’t perhaps as uncommon as as we might like to feel. Many 25%

Jo O’Neil [00:04:32]:
of the small business owners are disabled.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:04:35]:
25%. Yeah. Wow. Goodness. Goodness. I mean, now we know that running a small business is fraught with loads of challenges. It’s it’s a very it’s a lot harder to to to do them than people realize. That’s why so many businesses fail after such such a short time.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:04:54]:
So compound that with with having some form of a of a disability, whatever it may be. In your case, it was, the the issues brought by fibromyalgia and for other people, there are all sorts of other other, disabilities. How do you I mean, running a business or setting up your own business is hard anyway. How do you how do you go about doing that when you’ve got all this other stuff to to deal with?

Jo O’Neil [00:05:18]:
You you very much have to listen to your body, and it’s taken me a few years to learn that because used to use no. I can power through. I can get all this done, and then I’d end Keith bed for a week not being able to move. But now you’ve got to list like, I I often take an afternoon nap because that’s about the time I get tired in the evening in in the day. And then I’ll work later at night. But, yeah, I I don’t work at 9 to 5 because I I have to sort of go, do I do I need a nap? Do I just need to take a break? Am I good to work now? And and I really have to listen to that and and and be really, like, specific. Yeah. Right.

Jo O’Neil [00:05:54]:
Good to work. Let’s go. And, you know, if I’m having a really bad time of it and I have to take a few days off, let my clients know that everything’s gonna be a little bit later than I planned. I try to keep ahead of my own deadlines, so I’m well ahead of theirs. It doesn’t always work, but they won’t because I’m very honest about the fact that I’m chronically ill and and that I like to be flexible with let them be flexible as well as me, then you should be really good about it.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:06:21]:
I see. So that that was gonna be another question that I had. Do do your clients are your clients aware, of Yeah.

Jo O’Neil [00:06:29]:
I I I considered not telling them. Mhmm. But because it does impact everything, it didn’t make sense not to do that.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:06:38]:
Yeah. And did how do you find that your clients clients react to that? I mean, has there been any pushback or has it been universally they’re they’re happy to to to be flexible? How how’s that gone?

Jo O’Neil [00:06:50]:
So long as they’re not in a panic over something that needs doing, yeah, they’re completely flexible. They have often told me to go rest if I’m yeah. I’m doing this. I’m just I’m just, you know, not feeling great. Great. Go rest. It can wait.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:07:04]:
Nice. Nice. So support you you support them and and they support you in turn with Yes. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. And from what I’m hearing, you just need to I say just. You need to kind of build in, factor into your into your work week, your work day, factor in times that there will be times well, as you said, you you find you you flag in the afternoon, so you schedule a regular afternoon nap.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:07:27]:
So it’s it’s it’s all about learning to work with your body, with with your particular requirements and and

Jo O’Neil [00:07:34]:
Yeah. And then you got your throat and change something or it’ll you’ll I’ll always be fatigued for a few days for no reason or no reason I can find. Yeah. That that’s always throws me out. Usually, if if I’m doing something like I’m going to an awards ceremony or I’m going to a particular event, I I know I need to have a fairly easy few days beforehand. If I can, and I’m traveling somewhere, schedule a, well, stay in a hotel the night before and the night off.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:08:03]:
Mhmm.

Jo O’Neil [00:08:03]:
And then either a couple of days off afterwards or about 3 or 4 days later, it’ll hit me. And so that all has to be fine then

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:08:12]:
Yeah.

Jo O’Neil [00:08:12]:
Which can lead to some intense workloads just before it. So so I I need to get all this done because this is my I’m I’m not quite sure how I’m gonna be done.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:08:23]:
Yeah. I got you. Yeah. I mean, think thinking about it, going going to things like events and so on can be can be, quite a strain for for everyday people. So when you’ve when you’ve got what you’ve got going on as well, so it it really did really I was gonna say that really could wipe you out for a a period of time.

Jo O’Neil [00:08:41]:
It can. Yeah. And I did the small business Sunday, event in February. Mhmm. And I it’s like when you type carport hotel, myself and Karen Duncan was like, great. Let’s we’ll do it all in the day. It’s gonna hurt, but we’ll we’ll do it all in the day. By by 10 AM, I was on very strong painkillers.

Jo O’Neil [00:09:01]:
By midday, I wanted to cope and cry. I was in so much pain.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:09:05]:
Goodness me.

Jo O’Neil [00:09:06]:
I just want I just want on my bed.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:09:10]:
Oh, no.

Jo O’Neil [00:09:10]:
It’s like next year, we’ll get in the hotel. We’re just sorry.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:09:14]:
Very wise. Very wise indeed. So what advice would you give? Suppose there’s somebody who they they’ve got a they’ve got a job, a regular job, but they’re finding they’ve developed whatever all their their disability is getting whatever. Their symptoms are getting worse, and it’s reaching the point where it’s, you know, I cannot continue with this with this job anymore. Work have made whatever accommodations they can, but it’s reaching the point where it’s no longer feasible.

Jo O’Neil [00:09:43]:
Yeah. There is no where accommodations just don’t go far enough, and they can’t go far enough.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:09:48]:
Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, some some some employers and some cases you will find they can make accommodations and it’s okay, but I’m guessing for for some, the symptoms are just so severe that no no accommodations can be made. So they’ve they’re they’re no longer no longer in full time employment or even in part time employment. They’re considering setting up their own business, what what advice would you give to the, the potential disabled entrepreneur?

Jo O’Neil [00:10:19]:
I would suggest either find something you love or something you’re really good at and see if there is a particular job or self employment career type thing that you can do. Research the heck out of it and see if it’s something you think you could do around your disability, But also look at the access to work, the government scheme. You can get yourself an adviser and they will help you set up and make all those accommodations to make it easier as you shop.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:10:49]:
Ah, okay. So so that I was gonna ask, is there any support from the government the government’s what did you what do you say is called the scheme?

Jo O’Neil [00:10:57]:
The access to work scheme.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:10:58]:
Access to work scheme. What what kind of support can you get through access to work?

Jo O’Neil [00:11:04]:
Well, up until about a month ago, my entire sort of contact with that had been people looking for a VA because a lot of people need help with organization and sort of getting those business tasks done. However, since then, I found out you can get things like the business coach. You can get an appropriate chair, a bigger screen, any software that will help you. For example, if you’re diagnosed as dyslexic, you can get software that you can talk at, and it’s it’s actually decent to do text to speech speech to text. But there’s lots out there. I haven’t looked at it before, but I am now. Okay. I could do with support.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:11:44]:
Yeah. So it it sounds as though there is there is a fair amount of support that that can be available.

Jo O’Neil [00:11:50]:
There is. And there’s people out there who know how to fill that for me.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:11:56]:
Mhmm.

Jo O’Neil [00:11:56]:
And know what to say, and and if if you sort of tell them your struggles, what you need, they will write it for you. How how would

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:12:02]:
you go about finding such people?

Jo O’Neil [00:12:05]:
I actually found one in my Facebook group. But but because that has been a big topic we’ve talked about. But if you if you Google access to it, you’ll find all the information on it. I suggest going to Facebook and looking for people who sort of typing access to what seemed to be found because I think there’s groups set up there to actually help people.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:12:31]:
Right. Okay. Okay. Now that’s that that is useful to know. So there’s there is definitely support out there, and it’s it can cover quite quite a range. You’re saying it can help you with specialized chairs, bigger screens, software to to help work with you rather than

Jo O’Neil [00:12:46]:
Yeah. Bash

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:12:47]:
your head against against it. God.

Jo O’Neil [00:12:49]:
Support workers.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:12:51]:
Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Now you mentioned your Facebook community. I know you have, given everything you’ve gone through and the and the people that you support and so on, you’re you are, building up a quite a bit of business support for for other, business owners with with disabilities. Tell me tell me a bit more about that. What’s going on there?

Jo O’Neil [00:13:13]:
So this came about because the wonderful Stacy Calder, who I know you recently had on

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:13:17]:
We have indeed.

Jo O’Neil [00:13:19]:
Has been sort of trying to plant seeds for a while for me to run a local, business success network. But I I think a local one lends itself to face to face meetings, and I can’t always be sure I can advance or how well I’m going to be. And so so I resisted it. And then I I went to an FSB event for disabled entrepreneurs, and it was such a supportive environment. And it’s like, I love this. So then it kinda hit me. So I could run a community for Stacy, well, with Stacy, but I’m going to do it on my community. I I want that supportive environment every day.

Jo O’Neil [00:13:58]:
So I I set up the, business success network for disabled entrepreneurs, and the response I’ve had is absolutely insane. Because there’s so many people going, this is so needed. And it’s like it’s just hate the word safe space, but it it’s a safe space where they can either It’s not a lot of these communities are either everything’s horrible or toxic positivity. Whereas people I’ve I’ve sort of got in and sort of the things I’m putting out seem to be foster honesty. It’s like, this is happening. It’s crap. This is where we’re going. This is, like, our dreams.

Jo O’Neil [00:14:37]:
This is how we’re doing it. We we have a weekly goal setting, and we look at it at the end of the week, see how people got on. If you didn’t make it, that’s fine too. It’s like weekly wins. Your weekly wins might be you got out of bed and you had a shower. It might be something business related that you did and you’re really proud of. We have a Wednesday check-in. So how’s your spoons doing? Because Wednesday is usually the day you’ve either opened it the 1st start of the week part of the week.

Jo O’Neil [00:15:04]:
You’re flagging or you’re doing okay and you’ve managed to manage your energy levels. Yes. We’ve got things like collaborations. We’ve got lots of, like, discussions going on. This week we’re discussing the challenges we find. But it’s all very open. It’s very honest, and it’s very supportive. And they’ve they’ve talked to it like ducks to water.

Jo O’Neil [00:15:25]:
It’s it’s amazing. And and so the people I’ve met and the stuff that’s been put in place in the background because there’s there’s big things happening in the background that I can’t tell you about them. And, yeah, the response which has been amazing.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:15:42]:
Yeah. Oh, wow. And I I love that you that you’re kind of in the Goldilocks zone of of, support there because, as you say, there are some places where people just do focus on, life is rubbish. Everything’s rubbish. This is everything’s so hard. It’s all against us. And then you get, which is probably even worse, as you say, the toxic positivity which

Jo O’Neil [00:16:04]:
Everything’s fine. Don’t mention everything negative. It’s like, no. No. I know. It’s cracked, and it’s processing that out. You can

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:16:13]:
I think I’ve done a whole episode on on the the dangers of toxic positivity as well? It is it is nasty stuff, isn’t it? And it doesn’t help anyone. It just, disregards and dishonors what you’re what you’re going through. But you’re you’re in the middle of that, you know what? Yeah. Sometimes life is crap. You know what? Sometimes, yeah, we do do brilliant things. Let’s work together. Let’s help each other, support each other to to navigate this this.

Jo O’Neil [00:16:36]:
If you’re struggling, what can we do to help? If you just want to shout out that you did something, go for it. Yeah. It it it’s the sort of the length of breath. And as as soon as it’s like, it’s nice to be in a community where people just get it, and you can go for the full range of emotions and and and things, and everybody understands.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:16:58]:
Love it. Love it. And that this, it’s all it’s online. Yes?

Jo O’Neil [00:17:01]:
It’s online. It’s a Facebook community. It it’s linked with the Business Success Network, and it’s growing really quickly.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:17:11]:
Yes. Yes. You you shared some of the figures of of, the growth that you’d hoped for and then what actually happened, which blew it out of the water, basically.

Jo O’Neil [00:17:20]:
Yeah. Which

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:17:22]:
just shows it is it is very much a needed a needed thing.

Jo O’Neil [00:17:26]:
It is.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:17:28]:
Yeah. I mean so and it’s open to to all, business owners with with any forms of disabilities?

Jo O’Neil [00:17:36]:
Any form of disability at all when you’ve got an official diagnosis or not, or if you’re a business owner that particularly supports, that community.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:17:45]:
Right. Right. Right. Where where can people find where can people find this?

Jo O’Neil [00:17:49]:
Either go to Facebook and search for Business Success Network for disabled entrepreneurs will come up. And if you’re like me, stick it in a word document first because I can’t spell entrepreneur.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:18:02]:
I know. It’s it’s a it’s a pain of a word to spell, isn’t it? Awesome. And I know you’ve got big plans for that, but you say you can’t you can’t really tell us tell us anything at the moment. I guess it just means we’ll have to revisit again at some point in the future.

Jo O’Neil [00:18:20]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. We’ve got we’ve got big plans. I mean, we’ve we’ve well, we’ve done the Business Success Network podcast off of it. I’m launching my own podcast from it. When they hit 300 members, they are getting a community buzz. I can’t tell you that one.

Jo O’Neil [00:18:38]:
We can we can pull everybody’s bugs in and help them get visible because, obviously, I’m a marketeer. I help people get Noble, so that’s that’s very much my focus on helping these people get visible.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:18:47]:
Yeah. Oh, wow. Wow. So the the community, is it is it free? Is it at a cost? What’s the

Jo O’Neil [00:18:53]:
The community is free. We have networking every fortnight, which is 5 counts. Mhmm. Attend like, guesting on the podcast is free. Sponsoring it, there are various costs, but most of it is free. And then you you can dip into other things with a little bit of a cost on if you want to, and there’s no pressure.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:19:13]:
Yeah. No pressure. Love that bit. So so the the membership is free. The support is free. For those who want it, there are options where you can you can pay for additional.

Jo O’Neil [00:19:23]:
Yeah.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:19:24]:
But it’s absolutely usable for for, for free as well for the for those who Yeah. Who who need it. Love that. Love that. Well, best of luck with that. I mean, I know that’s that is a very, very much needed, niche that you’re that you’re you’re serving there. Good luck with that.

Jo O’Neil [00:19:42]:
It turns out it’s my passion project.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:19:45]:
There you go. Love it. What what about for for Joe and and for Brightcath? Aside from the the the the community side, what’s what’s what’s coming up for you over there in the future? Or is is everything focusing on that at the moment?

Jo O’Neil [00:20:00]:
Oh, no. Everything’s not focusing on that. I’m currently looking for clients, particularly social media ones that want, their content done for them because I have a husband, I need to keep busy. And or or your email marketing, I can do that for you as well. But, yeah, you can find us at bracat.co.uk or find us on various social media platforms. Just search for Jo O’Neill or Bricap Business Solutions. You will find us, and we offer a no obligation consultation to see what you might need. Okay.

Jo O’Neil [00:20:31]:
We’ll help you get visible.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:20:33]:
Right. And as you say, you have a husband to keep busy because your husband has now joined you in the business. So, you are 2 self employed, business business owners.

Jo O’Neil [00:20:45]:
Yeah. And and and he he’s very good with Chadwick. He makes all the Keith pictures. To the point he’s running workshops on making those and and upscaling people. And I run a few on marketing, but Campbell is a big one. And yeah. I said, I’ve got to keep him busy. He doesn’t want to learn all the technical stuff that I do.

Jo O’Neil [00:21:09]:
I I have told him he has to learn video editing and things like that because I I can do that. But he’s Twitter’s in is in his range of making things pretty. Yeah.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:21:21]:
Brilliant. Love it. And as you say, people can find out more going to Brightcath, that’s b r I g h t dashcat.co.uk. There are other links. Obviously, you’re on the socials and all this sort of thing. All of the all of those links are in the show notes. As always, go to keithblakewhennoble.com/show Noble look for the second one with Joe O’Neil. You’ll find all all the links there.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:21:46]:
Also check out the our other podcast that, that we recorded, last year as well. Or just go to bright dash cat dotco.uk. Check out Joe. Check out the business. People can find direction to your your, community through that through through Brightcout as well. Yes?

Jo O’Neil [00:22:08]:
Not directly to the website at the moment. I have some editing to do. You will be able to, but if you go to Facebook and just search for Business Success Network, for disabled entrepreneurs, you’ll find us quite easily.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:22:19]:
Brilliant. Love it. Sure. Or just get in touch with Jo. She’ll pop you in the in the right direction. Or get in touch with me. I’ll I’ll send you the link. I’ll I’ll pop you in the right direction.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:22:28]:
Whatever way you get in touch with any of us, if if that’s the community for you, we’ll get you there. And, there’s a lot of support in there from from what you were saying, Joe.

Jo O’Neil [00:22:37]:
There’s there’s it’s a wonderfully supportive community. Yeah. No.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:22:41]:
I love that. And I I love that, that you’re taking taking your situation, which for for many people could have have got got you down and got you going, oh, and you’ve not only built your own business, but you’re now building a community of of like minded people, all with the aim of helping each other to build and grow their businesses. A supportive community, which rather than communities just looking to sell to each other, which I know there’s there are many of those out there. You find this community, you think, oh, this sounds good, and it they’re all just trying to sell to each other. But you you are all creating creating together and creating something greater than the the sum of the parts.

Jo O’Neil [00:23:21]:
We have we have one post a week of what what what can we buy from you. And, obviously, when people are introducing themselves, tell us to give us all your links, tell us what you sell, who are you, what you do. But, yeah, it’s mostly like we’ve got 1 post a week of what can we buy from you.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:23:35]:
Yeah. Lovely. Because, obviously, it’s important to know what what what you each sell because you might wanna buy from each other or you might know who to pass on pass them on to.

Jo O’Neil [00:23:43]:
Absolutely. It’s just the only reason to believe each other and and knowing how we can help each other.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:23:49]:
Yeah. No. I I love that, Joe. Well, absolute best of luck with that. I say best of luck. You’re obviously off to a fantastic start, and there’s no there’s gonna be no stopping this. You don’t need luck. You you’ve got this.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:24:02]:
But No.

Jo O’Neil [00:24:03]:
I I’m sure I’m just watching the numbers go up every day.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:24:08]:
Great. Oh, how did that happen?

Jo O’Neil [00:24:11]:
It’s like I I have well, I’ve almost stopped other than some scheduled post, going on a alright. I need to get some people in. It’s just it’s just going up.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:24:20]:
And that that just shows it is very much needed. Yeah. Well, Joe, thank you so much for taking taking time out to, to record this episode with us. Thank

Jo O’Neil [00:24:32]:
you. No.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:24:33]:
My my absolute pleasure. And, obviously, we keep in touch. We’re in a we’re in a network organization, so we see each other every every week. That’s how I first find out about what what Joe’s doing. So I’m really looking forward to to watching how this how you where you you all take this community. And good luck with your podcast as well.

Jo O’Neil [00:24:52]:
Thank

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:24:52]:
you. When when when when are they launching?

Jo O’Neil [00:24:55]:
That launches on the 11th April. I don’t know when the BSM one comes out yet. I would not finish recording that. Yeah. I’ve got all my to do. I think it might be April ish time. April ish

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:25:05]:
time. Nice.

Jo O’Neil [00:25:07]:
But the price is the 11th April.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:25:10]:
Okay. Well, depending on when they go out, I’ll get the links from Joe, and I’ll pop those into the show notes for this this episode as well so you’ll be able to go and go and check those podcasts too. One quick one quick final question. Many people know the answer. Many people won’t know this. You you mentioned spoons earlier. Just because I I I remember when I first came across the concept, that makes so much sense. So just just share with us with people, what’s the spoons all about?

Jo O’Neil [00:25:40]:
Spoons is all about, spoon theory, which was originally developed by a lady with Lucas to explain her energy levels. The idea is, everyone has a certain amount of energy levels. And in in theory, everyone has the same, but we all know that’s not true. And they’re sort of they’re they’re given the sort of analogy as a spoon. And having a shower might be one spoon to somebody who is well and able. Someone who is disabled, that might be 3. Or you’re just getting out of bed might be a couple of spoons. And you you you know how many spoons you have in a day, and you have to apportion that to everything you need to do, and often there isn’t enough.

Jo O’Neil [00:26:24]:
And so it’s become a thing within the disabled community to be to house your spoons.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:26:30]:
Yeah. No. I I I love that. I I remember when I I first came across that, when I was, when my bouts of depression that I I had a while back, and it was like, all of a sudden it makes sense. Yes.

Jo O’Neil [00:26:42]:
Yeah. Because like, some days you’re out of foods. You know?

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:26:47]:
Yeah. And so yeah. I it’s a it’s a a great great metaphor.

Jo O’Neil [00:26:52]:
You you can steal things from different days, but you can have less spoons for the next ones.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:26:57]:
Yes. You can’t make more spoons, unfortunately.

Jo O’Neil [00:26:59]:
There’s an so find out how much spoons. You can take it from next days, but just be aware that’s gonna impact you big time.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:27:08]:
And often you have to pay interest on the spoons you borrow as well.

Jo O’Neil [00:27:11]:
You do. Yeah.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:27:15]:
Oh, right. Well, Jo, once again, thank you so much for for being with us. And dear viewer, dear listener, thank you so much. I hope you’ve taken taken some some useful things away from this. If you know of anyone who would benefit from, from being in in Joe’s community, pass some details. Let them know. I can’t wait to see what, what magic you all create together. That’s it for that’s it for this episode.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:27:40]:
Thank you all so much for being here. Take care. Look after yourselves. I’ll catch you in another episode very soon. Until then, bye for now.