Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:00:14]:
You’re listening to the Keith Blakemore-Noble Radio Show. Interesting chats with interesting people about interesting things and no adverts. Here’s your host, Keith Blakemore-Noble. Hello. Hello. Hello, hello, Hello. Welcome back. Welcome back.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:00:36]:
Glad to have you with us for another interesting episode. An interesting chat with an interesting person, an interesting topic. Let me introduce today’s guest. “Mum. I wish to be seen and recognised as a woman.” When Tracy heard those words from her teenage son, they set off a firestorm of emotions. Shock, anger, sadness, shame. The revelation was distressing, unwelcome, and full of fear for Tracy’s child’s future and of the changes that this would bring to the family.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:01:12]:
Tracy is the author of Journey to Acceptance, which tells the story of how she came to embrace her child’s identity as a transgender woman and along the way, discovered how pain and suffering can lead to gratitude and strength. Also shares how it led Tracy to places she never thought she would go. That is my guest today, Tracy. Let’s bring Tracy in. Hello, Tracy, are you there?

Tracy Turner [00:01:36]:
Yes, I’m here.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:01:40]:
Thank you so much for joining us. Taking time out of your day to join us for this. Tracy, we heard the bio in the intro. I got to ask, who is Tracy? Who is the wonderful woman behind all of this?

Tracy Turner [00:01:51]:
Well, first of all, thank you for inviting me on. Tracy is a single parent of a transgender woman called Elle. Apart from that, I’ve run my own business for 33 years. I have since qualified as a teacher to teach businesses, moved on to doing personal development, coaching to help transgender people as well as business. And the published author of Journey to Acceptance.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:02:19]:
Beautiful. Beautiful. Love it. Love it. So let’s. Let’s dive in and explore this. So your child came out with that? With that. I want to be seen and recognised as a woman.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:02:33]:
Were there, obviously, at the time, there were no signs. As you look back now, were there any signs or indications that this.

Tracy Turner [00:02:40]:
No, I think when. Obviously, the initial was shocked disbelief. But when Elle first told me, no, you could have knocked me down with a feather. Since then and since writing the book, which brought in a lot of things that I think you ignore or put down to, oh, that’s growing up or whatever that I missed. And I do talk about one time when else commandeer his sister’s fairy wings at the age of two and refused to take them off even to go to bed. So. But, you know, I don’t know whether that’s related or whatever. Things came a little bit clearer when I now think about the challenges we had with Elle, who Was Billy at the time, and behaviour and anger management and, you know, we talked to counselling and even at an early age of 6 and 7.

Tracy Turner [00:03:40]:
But I put that down to the split of the family. And I was a single parent trying to run a business, keep it afloat. I guess I didn’t have time to delve in any further. But looking back now, I think maybe there were some signs that I just didn’t see.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:03:58]:
Gotcha. Yes. So as you say, looking back and hindsight is 20 20, as I said, hindsight’s a wonderful thing. So looking back, there were some signs there. But as you say, you were, you were busy living life, keeping, keeping the family going, keeping, keeping everything together. So it’s natural these signs would, could slip by sort of unnoticed.

Tracy Turner [00:04:19]:
Yeah.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:04:20]:
Okay, so when, when this, this conversation happened, how did you, how did you react? How did you, what, what happened?

Tracy Turner [00:04:30]:
Well, really, I was shocked. Disbelief, anger. Anger was massive anger for how it was going to affect me, how it’s going to affect my relationship, how I was going to handle it. Because I was someone who was a single parent. I was a strong single parent, thought I was a strong single parent. And I valued being in control. And control stopped me from having fear for failing my children, for fear of the unknown, fear of judgment. And suddenly I was out of control.

Tracy Turner [00:05:08]:
I had no idea what I was dealing with. I didn’t know how to help. I didn’t know what to say. I said things that I realise now that were irrelevant, you know, who was going to love her, who was going to take her on. I didn’t stop to think about the pain of my daughter and what this was causing. My initial reaction was all about me, external validation, and, you know, I’m ashamed to say, say that, but I did do it, and I’ve written it in my book, and I am. But yes, that is your first reaction. And the biggest fear is the fear of the unknown, of not knowing the answers, of how to help your child.

Tracy Turner [00:05:48]:
And the fear of she was making a mistake. That’s all went through me in the first, literally half an hour. I was literally on the floor. I, I, I describe myself as a swan. I tried to breathe, I tried to stay calm, but underneath, I was paddling so fast to try and even come to terms with it or to catch up with what my daughter was telling me.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:06:13]:
Yeah, I was going to say, I can imagine. I can’t, I can’t imagine the, as you say, the shock and everything that you’ll be going through goes a massive, massive thing for you. Also a massive thing for your child as well. That said, they’ll have had time to. To come to terms with this. You’ve had this dropped on you. Looking back at it, how would you. If you were able to kind of be there, just standing over Tracy’s shoulder in that moment, what would you like now to say to Tracy? How would you guide Tracy through that?

Tracy Turner [00:06:49]:
Ellie? How? I drive Tracy.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:06:51]:
No, no, you. Yes.

Tracy Turner [00:06:57]:
Listen. I would have listened to the words that my daughter was telling me, and I wouldn’t put the perspective. An adult into the scenario. The adult was. How could this be the case? She’s not had a relationship. She’s not had a job. She’s not got into life.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:07:15]:
How.

Tracy Turner [00:07:16]:
How can she know? How can she know that’s what she wants? Because I related everything of being transgender to the external world. I didn’t stop to think or ask or listen, really, to what my daughter was telling me because I thought I knew better.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:07:34]:
Yeah.

Tracy Turner [00:07:34]:
So I would definitely, definitely tell myself to stop and start from a position of belief. Don’t start from a position of disbelief and negativity. Start from belief and positivity.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:07:52]:
Right. Yeah. And that’s. That’s a really. I love the way you put that. Start from a position of belief, not disbelief. So believe your. Believe your daughter.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:08:02]:
Don’t disbelieve him. And as you mentioned, what. What advice would you have given Elle at the time? Is there any. Anything that they could have done to.

Tracy Turner [00:08:14]:
I have to be honest. Elle was 17, but she had clearly thought about this for a long time. She had been struggling with it for a long time. She knew me very well. She loved me, trusted me. We had a good relationship. But she knew I would go into panic mode. So she very, very cleverly looked and researched her options, her opinions, and she calmly talked me through it of where we went from there.

Tracy Turner [00:08:46]:
So Elle did that, not me. She sort of put forward. The only thing I put forward, and I don’t disagree with this, and I would recommend it, is that I asked her to go for counselling. So she went. She. And she agreed. So that was quite nice because it was agreement between both of us. I felt she was doing what I asked because it gave space for my feelings and my beliefs, and it gave space for Elle to go and talk to somebody who could.

Tracy Turner [00:09:15]:
She could talk about what she wanted to talk about by herself. So it was a two pronged thing. People might say sending her to counselling was because she didn’t believe her. I have to be very honest. I sent her to counselling hoping that her mind would be changed and I popped it in a box in my brain going, job done. She’ll come back six months time and it’ll be done. That wasn’t the case, but definitely that is a good thing. And you should be very aware that you should find somebody who embraces your child’s transgender but doesn’t tell them they’re transgender.

Tracy Turner [00:09:46]:
Elle went to a therapist saying, this is what she was. She didn’t ask to be diagnosed to that. So the therapist needs to understand your needs and not to sort of say, oh, yeah, you are this, you are that. That’s down to the person who’s going to therapy to see say, I am this. So a therapist may ask that child to spend time or do things, but, you know, I hope she was going to change her mind, but she didn’t.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:10:17]:
Yeah, yeah, I get you and I. I see what you’re. What you’re saying there. The. The important thing with the therapist is not that the therapist is what the therapist doesn’t say. Ah, yes, you’re transgender. The therapist is there too. Give space.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:10:31]:
Yeah, give space. So you can make sure for yourself that that’s. That’s who you are. And then therapists can help, help you guide your way to finding. Finding your new way in, in life.

Tracy Turner [00:10:43]:
Yeah, cool.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:10:44]:
Did you, did you seek any therapy at that time or any support?

Tracy Turner [00:10:48]:
I didn’t at that time because at that time I was still in subconscious avoidance mode. So, no, in my mind, this was all going to be sorted in six months. Months. So I didn’t at this point go for it. I did later on, but I didn’t actually, at this point.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:11:04]:
Do you. And obviously I’m not looking for any particular answer. Genuinely curious. Do you feel it would have made a difference for you if you’d gone for counselling then, or do you feel that that wasn’t the time you needed to go through what you were going through in order to become the person.

Tracy Turner [00:11:19]:
I think now, and I do mention in my book that shame pays and society plays a part in this and more. For me, it was. It was the shame of not coping as a single parent. I’ve been a single parent and a successful single parent, financially secure, and suddenly I had this scenario going in with my life that I didn’t want people to know that I couldn’t cope with. So I didn’t talk to people and I didn’t go for help. And yes, I would recommend that you do go to your local. In Northampton. We have the local lowdown.

Tracy Turner [00:11:55]:
In fact, my I have. My best friend of 55 years is gay, and she runs the Lowdown in Northampton. And she was a rock, an absolute rock, because she was somebody I could talk to, and she explained my fears. You know, I believe that nobody would love Ellie. She would be able to have a relationship. There’s such a massive spectrum on transgender, and Julie really helped me. So in that respect, I had a massive help there, but I didn’t join the LGBT group. And I think you should have, and you should reach out to other transgender parents, because if I had, my journey may not have been.

Tracy Turner [00:12:32]:
Would have not. Definitely not been as lonely and not so scary.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:12:37]:
Yes. So basically, there’s that, as you say, the loneliness, the fear. You feel alone. You feel as though you’re the only one in the world’s going through this. You feel others will judge. Nobody else will understand. And yet there are. There are resources out there where.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:12:52]:
Where you can get support, where you, as the parent can get. Get support and help.

Tracy Turner [00:12:56]:
And I think it’s really important to say here and again, I’ve written about this. It’s important you find sensible resources. Do not get pulled in by media sensationalism, by somebody talking about transgender, who isn’t transgender, who doesn’t have the experience. Find the resources that are legit. Go to the lgbt, find information online. But as soon as I found somebody saying something online, something else popped up to knock that out. So this is why I don’t discuss political percentages and things. There is nothing out there personally that you can take hand on heart.

Tracy Turner [00:13:40]:
All the decisions that are made at government, political, and in supreme courts at the moment are made by people who are. Are not transgender, have not gone through the experience or even asking those people’s expertise. So you cannot explain it, you cannot do it unless you’ve had that experience. So don’t get fooled by media sensationalism. This is a social contagion. This is the trend. Your child is changing because it’s a trend they want to fit in. Your child is changing because she’s confused, because she’s not had a male role model.

Tracy Turner [00:14:17]:
Do not fall for all of those. I did. And it just causes you massive stress. So find the right resources, the right information, and ask for help.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:14:30]:
Yeah, yeah. Ask. Ask for help. Seek support from those who. Who have experience in just. Just as you would in anything, I guess, in any situation you find yourself in, you’re going to seek help from those who have experience in it. Exactly the same with it.

Tracy Turner [00:14:46]:
Yeah.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:14:47]:
As you say, we’re in the unfortunate position at the moment where there is a lot of, a lot of hysteria in the media. Don’t pay attention.

Tracy Turner [00:14:55]:
There’s a lot of hate. We’ve just legalised discrimination to a very, very small vulnerable group that are already vulnerable, that are already discriminated against and generally they want to live life in peace as the authentic selves, become a part of society and live in safe. That’s 199.9 is what that’s all they want. They will, they do not want to cause any harm to anybody. They just want the right to live in dignity and in peace and as themselves.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:15:31]:
Yep, absolutely. Very well said. Very well said. So we’ve heard the, the initial, heard about the initial conversation and what you, what, what you all, what you both went through and we’ve heard how you would advise a more helpful, more empowering way to navigate that situation. So then what happened? How did things progress from there?

Tracy Turner [00:15:58]:
Well, obviously Elle came back from therapy six months online and we were a couple of weeks off her being 18. So regardless of what I felt or believed, my control was gone. I had two choices. One, get on board with this ship and sail with my daughter or loser because she was 18. So as a mother throughout this journey, throughout the 10 years, I’ve met lots of people who had their opinions, family alike, friends alike, expertise alike. But never ever have I come across somebody who did not understand the love a parent has for their child. And my heart breaks for ones, for children who are pushed out, totally home, not accepted. So there was no choice but to do that.

Tracy Turner [00:16:55]:
So I started to find out about what I was dealing with. El obviously had told me what she would be doing, where she’d be going, what she needed. She’d gone through puberty, so she needed. She couldn’t have puberty blockers, so basically hers was the hormones. She knew to go for blood tests, go to the thing. So basically she then had to jump through many hoops of one conversation after another with one gp, another gp, some GPS just dismissed it. This is, you know, a trend or, you know, is this really what you want? We went through many and the heartbreak of cnl, come home feeling that she was just a checklist of questions nobody was listening to. Her voice was heartbreaking to the point where we had to ignore the NHS because there is no help on the nhs.

Tracy Turner [00:17:48]:
The waiting list now, I believe excess of seven years for your first appointment. It was a long seven years with the backlog. So now obviously it was two years to get into a gender clinic in the UK when Elle was going through it. This was before COVID so that’s just soared. So it was heartbreaking. We had a privileged background in that Elle could go privately. So we found what was known as Gender gp, which is a private clinic that allows you to have the hormones privately. Obviously it’s costly and not only on top of that you have laser treatment.

Tracy Turner [00:18:26]:
You know, Ellie was very worried about her facial hair and eyebrows, that type of thing. I could go on. I mean, buying shoes, just don’t get me started. But we had all of these things to do, you know, and so that’s where we went. So Gender Clinic will supply you with the hormones. It is much better if you go to your GP to get a blood test, your blood test, which you need in order to get your hormones. So we did find a GP was much more receptive. You know, we’re talking 10 years ago now.

Tracy Turner [00:18:57]:
There was many GPS, didn’t understand it, didn’t know there was many gaps in the nhs. Now there’s just lack of, I think lack of effort and lack of availability. You know, since the gender clinics have been closed, Tavistock’s closed, it’s. It’s definitely worse. So we had a hard time and I watched Elle’s mental health deteriorate through it because once she was brave enough to tell me she wanted to start a journey. But that’s where we did really, we went to, to do that. We went to Gender Clinic and we started the treatment. But the backlash of trying to get appointments and go to the Gender Daintree Clinic, it’s very hard.

Tracy Turner [00:19:38]:
And Elle’s mental health deteriorated and therefore that caused anxiety. She began to self harm and she. She had stress and that led to her missing appointment. And if you missed her appointment, it was months before you could get back to the clinic. It was just downward spiral of pushing your head, banging it against the brick wall and not knowing how to help the child was just immense. And then on top of that, I was still in the back of my mind hoping that this would make a change of mind. I mean, can you believe I was in that state? But I was. I remember a time, one very low point, where Elle has beautiful long curly hair and she just lost all ability to, you know, as you do when you get depression to.

Tracy Turner [00:20:26]:
And it became so matted that I one day had to sit there and cut it short. Still cry now when I think about it.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:20:34]:
Yeah, yeah.

Tracy Turner [00:20:35]:
Massive, massive low moment. And I just slept in her room, hoping to keep her safe because I didn’t know what else to do. I didn’t know where to go. She couldn’t find the support on the NHS for the. For the facial feminisation surgery that she really, really wanted. And we didn’t have the funds. You know, you’re talking 50, 60,000 pounds. And you know, whichever route we went, we couldn’t find it.

Tracy Turner [00:20:58]:
So all of this I saw deteriorate I. Another low point. I found her with a knife in her hand and it was just horrendous. And I just watched her come away from the world to just hide in her room. And even. And even despite that, the anger was in me because of all the pain it was causing, the way I couldn’t help her. And I was still, even then, hoping that all this pain and suffering would change her mind. I was still there.

Tracy Turner [00:21:32]:
So that’s where we were to that point. So very, very hard to get help. And I remember having a recurring dream which I still find a lot of shame in that. I’d wake up at night and I’d run down the stairs and I could see police through the glass door and I’d run down the stairs and I’d yank the door open and my mind would be going, please don’t let it be about Josie, which is my other daughter. And it was like the dream was telling me to choose between my children. And I couldn’t never choose between my children. But my conscious pain and anger coming out in. I don’t know how I.

Tracy Turner [00:22:14]:
How to deal with this. I don’t know how much more I can deal with. And the same was with for l. And that’s where we were. And that’s when four years down the line, she u turned and recharged back two billings.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:22:31]:
Yeah, because of everything. Because of all the pain and everything that was.

Tracy Turner [00:22:37]:
Yeah. I mean, again, I have to be honest, I didn’t ask the question. I was so happy. I can remember dancing around the room, so happy I was. Betty was back, my son was back. We’re gonna get back to normal, whatever normal is. I really didn’t ask. Ask the questions.

Tracy Turner [00:22:53]:
She told me it was because she didn’t feel as confident as a female as she thought she would. She. She didn’t go into the explanation as cause the facial feminisation. She didn’t tell me until we began to write our book that she had a very close friend that tried to commit suicide. And she saw the pain that it caused their family and she decided that it was better to live a half life than it was to cause that pain to her mother and her family. That was so heartbreaking when she told me that when I wrote the book. But I think and cried on the floor for most of the afternoon. I didn’t even ask because I didn’t want to know the answer.

Tracy Turner [00:23:34]:
I was just happy that she came through. So that’s happened and we started to move into a year or two years of Billy being Billy. And I went into how can I make my son’s life as good as possible because now he’s male. That’s mode I went into. I’m going to show him how well life could be living as a mouse.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:24:02]:
Yeah.

Tracy Turner [00:24:05]:
So classic.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:24:06]:
Yeah. Wow. Goodness me, goodness, goodness. So Billy transitioned and then transitioned back.

Tracy Turner [00:24:15]:
Yeah, transitioned back. I found out later writing the book that she. He at that point is very hard to get the pronouns right here. At that point went to see his best mate at Manchester. When he was driving back, he took a wrong turn and he hit a dead dead end sign. And he just looked at it and he just realised he was making the wrong mistake. He was making a mistake. It was the wrong decision.

Tracy Turner [00:24:43]:
But he knew if he re transitioned back at that point due to his financial situation and due to his mental health, he would find himself in the same position. So he decided to stay where he is, sort out his finances and his emotional mental state. So he went into planning mode and I went into how can I make my son’s life as good mode. So that’s where we went. So I worked with Milly to help him re qualify in an animal. He and he found a job working with animals which he still does today. She. She does today and loves it.

Tracy Turner [00:25:16]:
I also helped to purchase a house. Very rundown because I just in my brain me my total self going self external. External validation again. Help by Billy, a house help his self esteem. And also I needed space. I needed time. My relationship had collapsed very early on into Elle’s transition and I needed space. So we bought this house.

Tracy Turner [00:25:45]:
I spent a lot of time doing it up. Belief was this is going to help Billy. And no doubt it did. He lives. Still lives in that house today. But it was for me giving external validation to myself and to Billy and to give him space. And that’s what I did. I started in a relationship and to me life had positive points and the stomach churning nausea feeling.

Tracy Turner [00:26:16]:
I had disappeared because the fear for my child’s life had disappeared. So we went along that route for a couple of years, few years. And that’s what I believed was the future. Until we had many curveballs. We had Covid. I Watched my business collapse, my financial security that I’d run for 30 years collapse under Covid. I had no help. I was a limited company, so I had no help.

Tracy Turner [00:26:49]:
So I watched that collapse. Luckily, when Billy actually came back and I was on my own in the late. In the. February, March, January, February, March. I retrained as a business studies teacher and that then allowed me to go out and earn some money. So that happened. I had. We lost our Westie for 14 years.

Tracy Turner [00:27:15]:
I had the most massive betrayal, personal betrayal from friendships, which absolutely broke. Broke me with everything else, it broke me. The relationship I had been going through also crumbled. And then Elle came to tell me that she was retransitioning the house that I had lovingly renovated and helped to purchase could be sold and it would provide the money for the ffs. So I’d actually given myself a known goal.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:27:44]:
Yeah.

Tracy Turner [00:27:47]:
So, yes, that’s what actually happened. And it broke. It broke me. I was broken. I was cracked open with everything that was going through my life. And I now knew that I had to live with the anxiety and the stress and the worry and the fear of going through this all again. And it just completely broke me. I just wanted to sit on the floor and stay there.

Tracy Turner [00:28:08]:
And I did for a while.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:28:10]:
Oh, gosh. So how. How did you. How did you. You get out of that? How did you. You move on from.

Tracy Turner [00:28:15]:
From being in that position, basically from. I think you find your strength again. But through my two children and very close friends, I began the journey to heal. And that started with medication and it started with therapy. And as I started therapy, my therapist was wonderful. She told me to start looking at my inner child and my limiting beliefs. You know, I did come from a single parent family. My father was abusive, he was alcoholic.

Tracy Turner [00:28:47]:
He’d gone before I was born. But I never felt. And like a lot of people, I never felt that I had a bad childhood. You know, I felt different. I knew I’d learned to be a people pleaser. You know, I knew I want. I didn’t feel I fitted in because in, you know, in the 60s, as a single parent, it was rare. You know, we used to go for.

Tracy Turner [00:29:07]:
I used to have free school dinners. We were given a different ticket colour, we were sat on a different table. You know, that just wouldn’t happen today. But I never felt that I had any issues or anyone tease me about it or problem. But as I delved into this, you know, and some of the. Some of the ways of doing it were great. It was like writing with your left hand with a crayon, answering yourself in that way. Very effective, very effective.

Tracy Turner [00:29:35]:
And bringing the inner child out, drawing yourself as an inner child. I had times when I just sat and cried for hours and hours and hours. And I realised that I had been people pleasing all my life because I wanted to fit in, because I wanted to belong. And that’s what I’ve been doing. And I believed that external validation of working hard, getting success, having a nice house, driving a nice car would bring you happiness. And really I found through this therapy and everything else that it didn’t. I, I thought by doing therapy, thinking, I need, you know, I’ll find a good relationship and this will make it all right. I ended my therapy realising that that was.

Tracy Turner [00:30:17]:
I didn’t need a person because I’d found myself. Yeah, I’m still single today and I’m happier than I’ve ever been. Yeah. You know, so I. But I did embrace it very much so I, I read the books. I mean, Daring Greatly by Bren Brown. A must read, absolute must read. You know, she says, if you’re.

Tracy Turner [00:30:37]:
If they’re not in the arena, then any critics, their opinion, it doesn’t matter. And that’s a massive way to get rid of external validation. If, you know, if they don’t know, if they’re not prepared to put their name against, if they’re prepared to, you know, use your vulnerabilities or sensitivity against you, then they’re people you don’t need around you. And that was a massive read. And I did all of it. I. I meditated. I learned to, you know, to read books, all of the ones that are all actually listed in my book, of all the ones that helped me.

Tracy Turner [00:31:14]:
And I began to heal. And not only did I heal, I changed. I changed person. No longer do I need external validation. No longer does my happiness depend on other people’s opinions, what they think about me. Because I am now. I am enough. I am worthy.

Tracy Turner [00:31:31]:
And that took that massive, complete and utter devastation and breakdown to. To decide that although change, I didn’t know what it was, changing was less fearful than staying where I was.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:31:48]:
Yeah.

Tracy Turner [00:31:48]:
So I start. I started to change, and that’s what I did. And my kids say to me today, I don’t know what you’re on, Mother, but can you bottle it? Because I live in the present.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:32:01]:
Yeah.

Tracy Turner [00:32:01]:
I live in the now. I’m not saying I’m not good. I am still triggered. I’m not saying things aren’t difficult in life, they are, but I now understand My emotions, I don’t allow them to overwhelm me like they did in the past, because you get an emotion in the present. And I would let it overwhelm me to a point of just silliness. But now I realise it’s triggering something from the past. So I sit down, I let it go through me, I let it breathe, and I say, thank you very much, and I let it go. So that’s what happened to me.

Tracy Turner [00:32:34]:
And it allowed me to look at Elle’s journey in a different way. So her second journey, which I call our journey, because at this point I was in. I wasn’t in avoidance mode. And we started again. So she went back onto hormones. I threw myself into finding out about it. And she looked at surgeons and things like that. We talked about the House, obviously, I was extremely hurt by that.

Tracy Turner [00:33:03]:
But I realised you cannot provide your child with something and then dictate what they do with it. So I had to let go of that external validation that my child had without House, because it was mine. It wasn’t. It wasn’t Ellis. But we managed to find other advances or we managed to find loans and we went down that route. So that’s where we went. And we started again. We went back to GenderGP.

Tracy Turner [00:33:26]:
You have to go back to the NHS as well. But we started going through. But we fast forward it onto looking at surgeons. So Elle looked at surgeons outside of the uk, because the waiting list was so high, and she was the trailblazer, absolute trailblazer. I was still slightly in avoidance mode and I just watched with awe how she pulled things together. I then researched them. We looked and I helped on the finances, obviously, and we started to look at surgeons. The facial feminisation is the thing that really, really had an effect on Elle transitioning back and that in my book I’ve got details of.

Tracy Turner [00:34:07]:
Elle is very brave. She has put pictures, you know, and I have to say now, Elle is the bravest person I. You know, she’s put pictures in this book of before and now because she wants others to be aware of the subtle differences that it makes. And it’s not available in the uk, it’s not under the nhs, so it is a personal thing. You have to purchase it. So we found places, we found the Marbella team in Spain, who were amazing. And, you know, I talk about how different I felt and I talk about synchronicities. I mean, I was in Spain in April, I think 2021 it is now I have to go back and Elle was on holiday and she Was researching, but she wasn’t with me.

Tracy Turner [00:34:48]:
She was in the uk, was researching, sort of sampling surgeons. And she said, you know, I want Marbella was one of her top choices. America was just too expensive. She just rang me up and she said, you’re not going to believe this, mum, but they’ve got an appointment free in Marbella. And the waiting list was six months to a year. And you’re out there. What should we do? I said, get a flight. So she got a flight to Alicante, I got a hired car and we drove down to Marbella.

Tracy Turner [00:35:17]:
And that journey, I have to say, was just amazing because we talked and I was in a different place through my healing. And I kept saying when I was going, I want to do this. I kept going, yes, dare greatly. Dare greatly to the point, say, I am going to put this on your headstone, mom, that you did greatly. Because I kept saying it because I was in a different mode. And we drove down to Marbella, and they were amazing. And they talked me through, you know, all the fears. You have a child.

Tracy Turner [00:35:46]:
Would I. Would I recognise Bill if I walked past a part, you know, would I recognise Billy? Would I recognise l as Billy? That was my fear. What was the pain. They went through all of it, bit by bit. Really, really said that by the two weeks we were getting back on the plane, she would be on ibuprofen. Only I honestly didn’t believe that, but she was. So all of that I went through. And there was one point highlight that Ellie says now was probably one of the best highlights of our journey was we stopped at Porta Benus and had an apartment.

Tracy Turner [00:36:17]:
And I’d driven down the five hours. So I popped upstairs, you know, and I’m talking here Billy then. Or came through as his passport as Billy, and was still dressed in that way because she had to get through the passport. She didn’t want to change her passport when she came back. So I went upstairs, Cosmopolitan cocktail, as I’d done all this drawing. And I was sitting there talking to these people. And they go, oh, yeah, so, yeah, I’m here with my son. You know, I didn’t say why I was here, but whatever.

Tracy Turner [00:36:43]:
I was chatting away, drink, cocktail. I looked up and this woman walked in with long flowing hair and a dress. Looked amazing. And it was L. These people sitting next to me, hello, this is my daughter. And they didn’t question it. They were very confused, but they didn’t question. But I was made up.

Tracy Turner [00:37:04]:
She looked amazing. So that was her way of doing it. She was Going to do it at that point. So that was an amazing story. We had a fantastic night, drank far too many cocktails, but it was real cementing of the journey. And so we then went to the consultation. We did that, we flew back a couple of times, decided that’s who he wanted to go with. So then that was the first procedure and we flew out to Spain for that procedure.

Tracy Turner [00:37:28]:
In Marbella, I flew out with Elle. We had some time beforehand. I went in and stayed with her and then I left for the day of the operation. I remember going and walking to a beach restaurant that I saw on the way and obviously the view in front of me that you would love as a holiday, but it didn’t look like holiday to me because my child was in 11 hours of surgery. It was immense. I went back, I couldn’t get to see her that day because, I mean, she had. I mean, I won’t go into details about hair transplants. The chin, the trachea, the nose.

Tracy Turner [00:38:08]:
As a male, your skull is very more forward and behind it, just here, I believe there is like a gap which is there, which I say, of course. And they put plates in and shave that back. So that was 11 hours. So I didn’t see her that day. I did speak to him on the phone and then I went in to see the next day. It was heartbreaking, absolutely heartbreaking. She was.

Tracy Turner [00:38:30]:
I knew it was going to be bad. They told me the first 24 hours would be bad, but you, any parent wouldn’t want to go through that. So, you know, they pulled out a bed for me and I stayed higher. When she drifted off, I went round the whole, you know, the grounds and just cried, wiped my tears and came back again, did. And then 48 hours later, I came back to see her and she was up. And from there she recovered quickly, even came out for a meal a couple of times. We walked around the grounds and we flew home. I have to say later.

Tracy Turner [00:39:01]:
And you would not have known that Elle had had all this work done. And we flew back and. And the defining moment for me because the night before she went in, I did say to her, are you sure still? So it was still there slightly. But I sat, waited for her to come down from her final bandages, which. And I remember looking up and seeing her come down and the confidence and the radiate her face, the radiant face. And I knew it was defining moments me, it was almost like something hit my heart. I knew 100% at that point that she had made the right decision. I even Lost a son.

Tracy Turner [00:39:47]:
I had just gained my daughter who’s blossomed into the beautiful daughter she was meant to be. And that was a defining moment. And from that point onwards I was in 100%. I had no, no questions there. I just could see.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:40:04]:
Love it. Love it. I’m so, so pleased that it worked out in the end for both of you. For both of you. You mentioned the book a couple of times that you’ve, that you’ve written Journey to Acceptance, which I guess is basically the book that you wish you had been able to read at the time.

Tracy Turner [00:40:22]:
Yes, definitely. Yes. Yeah, yeah. It’s a book I think will help people. But the main thing is, I want people to know that it’s okay to not know the answers. It’s okay to feel judgment, feel anger and just accept that you are going to feel like that and don’t beat yourself up. Don’t listen to that inner critic. Be prepared for change.

Tracy Turner [00:40:52]:
You know, I wanted to say that do ask for help. I mean there’s a few, there is quite a few tips in there. But just briefly, be prepared for change. You know, create a safe place for your child. Educate yourself as much as you can. Love and support unconditionally. Establish positive communications with them. Put in boundaries.

Tracy Turner [00:41:17]:
You know, there are boundaries. You know, I feel Elle gave me space for my beliefs as I gave her space for hers. Ask for help. Respect your child’s identity, even just by changing. Using the name is a massive difference to their health and it’s very little effort to do. I appreciate nouns are harder. I still get them wrong today. An el just laughs.

Tracy Turner [00:41:40]:
But acknowledge your emotions, accept them and forgive yourself for making mistakes. And I also said start from, you know, a place of belief. So there’s so much discrimination and hate, it’s due to media sensationalism. You know, read the stories about people who’ve gone through it. Understand that they are human beings, that we are all just loving parents and we are doing our best. Show compassion, understanding, empathy, inclusion. You know, there’s just one thing I wanted to say, really, really wanted to say and I wrote this down because it’s so important. If transitioning makes an individual happy, the question of whether gender related ideologies are correct or whether all have to agree on them is, I believe, irrelevant.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:42:44]:
Yeah, very good point, Very good point. A very powerful point there. Unfortunately, time is marching away, as it inevitably does. People can find your book Journey to Acceptance on all good bookstores and etc. For people who want to find out a bit more about you what you do, maybe even get in touch. What’s the best way for them to do that?

Tracy Turner [00:43:07]:
Well, I’ve got my website, www.formantci.co.uk where I’m a personal development coach to transgender parents. As I say, I am happy to give free session for any transgender parent. I do not want them not to have that opportunity. It’s a better way of me giving back. You know, the journey was tough, it was hard. But do I regret any of it? No, I don’t. So that I’m on LinkedIn, I’m on Instagram, there is a gender GP from Dr. Helen Weberly link there as well that, you know, talks about the book, but it will also link you to GenderGP.

Tracy Turner [00:43:45]:
So there’s that. If people want to understand more information, the book goes on further of talking about everything that Elle went through. So if you want to know more about, you know, the full transitioning that Elle did, that’s in the book and it gives tips on how to help yourself. And, you know, if I say anything else to a parent is find your joy. It doesn’t have to be expensive. It can be walking in nature. It can be spending the time you cannot help your child or support your child enough with an empty cup. Fill your cup first and that would be all in that sort of little things that I wish I’d done.

Tracy Turner [00:44:24]:
So that’s the way people can contact me. And I’m available to speak to anybody who wishes to have more information.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:44:30]:
Love it. So that’s performanceci.co.uk. you can find out more Tracey mentioned available on other platforms. About all the links are in the usual place in the show. Notes keithblakemornoval.com show look for look for the one with Tracy or get in touch with@performanceci.co.uk do check out the book and remember Tracy has that very, very kind and generous offer of a free coaching session for any transgender parents to help them understand what’s going on. Tracy, thank you so much for taking time out. It’s been a fascinating episode. Best of luck to you and to Elle.

Tracy Turner [00:45:11]:
Thank you.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:45:13]:
Thank you so much. Thank you. Dear viewer, dear listener, thank you for catching us. I hope you enjoyed it. If you do remember, give us a Like a comment a review. Subscribe. Subscribe to us on your favourite platform. Share us far and wide and I will leave you with Tracy’s favourite quote.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:45:27]:
It is a beautiful quote. It’s from Wayne Dyer. “If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.” You’ve been listening to the Keith Blakemore-Noble Radio Show. To find out more, visit keithblakemorenoble.com.