The One About Hidden Benefits

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:00:00]:
Sometimes, when we try to make change, there’s something that stops us even though we are convinced we are fully ready to make the change. What is it? How do we overcome it? It’s called secondary gain or hidden benefit, and that’s what we’re gonna look at in this episode.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:00:50]:
Hello. Hello. Hello. Welcome. Welcome back. Welcome back. My name is Keith Blakemore-Noble. Welcome to The Keith Blakemore-Noble Radio Show.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:00:57]:
Another episode for you. It’s a solo episode this time, and we’re gonna be looking at secondary gain or hidden benefit as it’s sometimes called. If you find this interesting, if you like it, do give us a like, a comment, a share, subscribe to it on your favourite, podcast platform, give us a review. All of these things do help to spread word of the podcast. So let’s dive into, to this week’s topic. Sometimes when we, seek to make a change, maybe change a habit, or or overcome something, or or we’re making some sort of mindset change, we are convinced that we want to make the change. We know in our heart of hearts we have to make it, we want to make it, and it’s time to make it. And yet, no matter what we do, no matter what strategies we use, with the best approach, still it doesn’t seem to last.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:01:51]:
Either we don’t make the change at all or we make it but very quickly slip back into the old habit, old way of being. What the heck’s going on and what can we do about it? Well, one of the things which can really, hold us back and stop us from making change is a thing which is, sometimes called secondary gain or called hidden benefit. Basically, when when when you’re doing something, you do it because you get you get something out of it. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be doing it. Right? So when we do something, we get some sort of benefit from it, some sort of gain. Sometimes that benefit or that gain is is hidden. We don’t even realise that we’re getting it. In fact, it doesn’t even occur to us that we could be could be getting something positive out of it.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:02:43]:
But when we make the change, that positive thing disappears. Either causes us problems or causes us to relapse so that we get that benefit again. It’s probably easier to explain with some examples. So, throughout this, I’m gonna pick on smoking and quitting smoking as the example, purely because it is such a rich source of of illustrations for this. But this this works across anything that we wanna change, whether it’s overcoming a fear, or getting rid of a phobia, or changing changing, the way we perceive things, or overcoming a mental block, or whatever it is. It applies across all of these. So even though I’m gonna be talking about smoking in this, don’t think that this only applies to smoking. Right? It’s just a really really rich source of examples.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:03:42]:
So with smoking, we know it’s bad for us. We know it costs us a fortune. It makes our breath stink. It makes our clothes stink. It causes it dulls our taste. Makes everything taste. It’s antisocial. It puts people off.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:03:58]:
It stains our Keith, our fingers, takes up time, literally reduces our lives. It’s killing us. Reduces our our our lifespan. And yet, even with all of this and even with all the health problems that it brings because let’s face it. Waking up first thing in the morning, waking up and coughing your lungs up is not an attractive look. Even with all of this, still it can be difficult to quit. And it’s not because, it’s not because nicotine is addictive. It’s sometimes even when we go through the best of approaches to quit, to overcome smoking, to quit smoking, to change our habit, to become a nonsmoker, Sometimes we can’t do it, or we we fall back into doing again, because we’ve got a hidden benefit or a secondary gain.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:04:54]:
So what possible benefit could there be to smoking? I mean, we know all the downsides. What possible benefit could there be? Well, it turns out there’s a few possibles. These days when, you’re not allowed to smoke indoors, not allowed to smoke in building in offices, or not allowed to smoke at work. If you wanna smoke, what have you got to do? Get up away from your desk, go outside, and have a cigarette have your cigarette. So immediately, we’re getting a break from whatever stressful situation we’re in. We’re taking a break from it. That’s a benefit. It’s a good way to get out of a stressful situation.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:05:39]:
If that’s the benefit that you’re getting, find some other ways to to get out of that stressful situation. And it could be something as simple as just going, “Right – close my eyes for a few seconds. Right”. But if you’re smoking, you get that benefit. Taking you out of the stressful situation. When you go to the smoking shelter, they can be a great leveller because whoever’s there, it doesn’t matter what level you are in the company. When you’re in the smoking shelter, you’re all just smokers.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:06:14]:
You’re all on the same level. Have you got a cigarette? Have you got a light? You get chatting. It’s just a great a great leveller. Sometimes, that’s the benefit that people get. That’s particularly true, if you’re out, you know, socialising, pubs or clubs or whatever, where you you can’t smoke indoors, you go outside to the smoking area. There’s a term for it. I don’t know if it’s still used now, now, but there was for for a while a term for it. Smirting.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:06:40]:
Smoking and flirting. You meet up fellow smokers there. You instantly got something in common. You’ve instantly got a way to break break the ice and start the conversation. Off you got a light. Immediately, you’re talking. That can that can be a a great way to start meeting people. Again, that can be, one of the hidden benefits of smoking.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:07:03]:
Or, sometimes people think, oh, smoking, it de stresses me. Well, we know that it doesn’t. We know that just causes more puts more stress on the on the body, puts more stress on the wallet, more stress on the lungs and heart. It’s it stresses us. However, we feel an instant distress. Why is it? Well, think about it. When you smoke, what do you do? Get your cigarette in your mouth, light it up, and exactly. You’ve just taken a long, slow, deep breath and held on to it.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:07:42]:
Now, yes, that that breath is full of gunk, which is clogging your lung lungs up and not doing you any good. However, it is still a longer, slower, slower, deeper breath. You are still getting a little bit more oxygen in, and you’re holding on to it. Or you’re starting to to to relax a little bit. All of these things can be hidden benefits that we can get from smoking. There can be plenty of other other examples as well, but these are particular particularly, common examples. If any of those are subconscious benefits that you’re or unconscious benefits you’re getting to smoking, then no amount of, attempts to become a nonsmoker are gonna work because your mind’s going, yeah. It’s all well and good, but I need that break.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:08:31]:
I need to switch off. I need to whatever. So you’re gonna find what that hidden benefit is. Once you’ve found it, you can then work ways into your therapy, work ways into your new way of of of being, which get you that benefit. For example, the whole, oh, it it gets, helps me de stress. Well, what if you just push your chair back for a moment, close your eyes, and take a slow deep breath? Just do that. Start to get a little break, a little de stress, or maybe head off to the water cooler and get get a glass of water. You never know.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:09:17]:
You might meet somebody there and have a have a quick natter as well. Start to get some of that social interaction. Get the break. But find a way that gets you that hidden benefit you used to get. So now as a nonsmoker, you still get the benefits. Your mind’s not going, yeah, but I need that. That’s why hidden benefit, secondary gain, can be such a massively powerful thing. Having a problem can be Noble, but sometimes it gets us something.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:09:50]:
I’ll give you a non smoking related example. There was a gentleman, worked with him years ago. He had injured his back or had a sore back. Physically, the back healed, but many many many many many months later, still had a sore back. Still got the pain from there. Doctors checked him over. Physically, absolutely nothing wrong. Physically, everything’s fine.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:10:18]:
There’s no reason they should have that pain. Obviously, they were reluctant to put him on, long term painkillers because not a good thing. So he came to see me, and we we we had a chat. We explored what was going on. And we uncovered, something interesting about his his situation. Basically, we uncovered the hidden benefit. We uncovered the secondary gain. You see, this gentleman, he worked in an office.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:10:45]:
The others in the office were all ladies. And even though it wasn’t his job, if there was heavy lifting to be done, they would ask him to do it. And he would do it. He kind of resented it, but it’s just oh, yeah. Whatever. And he did it. Then he he did his back in. And, of course, while he had to fall back, nobody would ask him to do any of the heavy lifting.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:11:09]:
This is brilliant. No heavy lifting. As painful and horrible as that sore back was, there was a part of his unconscious mind that reasoned, okay. We hate doing that heavy lifting. Whilst we have a sore back, they don’t ask us to do any heavy lifting. So if we keep having that back pain, if we hold on to that pain, they’re not gonna ask us to do any heavy lifting. Perfect. We get out of doing the heavy lifting.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:11:47]:
So we’re gonna keep a hold of that pain. Now, yes, having that back pain was causing him all sorts of other problems. And it wasn’t very nice, to put it mildly. But part of his mind is going, we’re keeping that pain because that gets us out of doing that, all that heavy lifting nonsense. Once we realised this is what was going on, the solution became not hypnotherapy and NLP and coaching to overcome the back pain, because the back pain was all in in the mind. It was because it was getting this this this secondary gain. Instead, I suggested that he he have a chat with his manager and, explain the situation and negotiate that from this point on, he was not to be responsible for any heavy lifting, because it was never part of his job description anyway. So it was agreed he would not be asked to do any heavy lifting at any point in the future.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:12:45]:
Basically, they were in, serviced offices. So there was a handyman type of, facility there who would come around once once a week or whatever. So they just held the heavy lifting until the handyman was there and and got them asked them to do it all. That was put, that was agreed. Memo went round all the staff. Staff. Everybody agreed to that. Well, I think it was put into his contract.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:13:07]:
I can’t remember. Funny thing is within a week, it’s back absolutely fine. Because this unconscious mind no longer had to hold on to the pain to get out of doing the heavy lifting that was never part of his job anyway. Hidden benefit can really, really make massive difference. If if we are at risk of losing that hidden benefit, our mind will do whatever it takes to cling onto it if that benefit is important enough to us. We know that when we want to make change, we have to want the change the want has to come from us. Again, using the the the the smoking example, there’s the age old story of, smoker goes to see a therapist. Hey.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:13:59]:
Can you help me quit smoking? Yeah. Let’s have a chat. So tell me, why do you why do you want to stop? Why do you wanna stop smoking? Well, to be honest, I don’t want to quit. But my wife, she wants me to quit. So I figured I’d give it a go. Of course, the therapist did not take that personal as a client to explain to him, you know what? We’re not gonna do this because it’s not gonna work. We would have more success in turning your wife into a smoker than we would have turning you into a nonsmoker because you don’t want to stop. We know that want has to come from within.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:14:37]:
We know we have to do the work as well. I had a client one time who had a phobia. I said, right. Sat down. Right. Come on then. Sort me out. Let’s see what you can do.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:14:47]:
See if you can get rid of this. See if you can make me not scared of that anymore. Like, woah. That’s not how it works. It’s not a magic wand. You have to want to do it. You have to you have to do the work as well, and you have to want to make the change. We know about that.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:15:04]:
We we’ve spoken about that before. And, actually, sometimes when I ex describe to people how this stuff works, I sort of describe my role as being like your satnav. You get into the car, program the destination into the satnav, sit there, sitting, sitting, wondering why you’re not getting anywhere. What? Oh. Oh, you mean I have to drive? I actually have to drive and I have to follow your directions. Okay then. So you drive and you follow the satnav’s directions. Satnav says at the next junction turn left.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:15:38]:
You go I’m gonna prove I’m in charge here. I’m gonna prove I’ve got free will. I’m going to turn right. And so you turn right. Well done you. You’ve proven you’ve got free will and you’re now heading away from your destination. Oh that didn’t work out too well did it? Oops! But if you follow the satnav, if you do the driving do do what what’s required, follow its direction, follow the directions, you arrive safely at your destination. If there’s some secondary benefit in not getting to that destination, however, you probably you may not even get into the car, let alone reach the point of of of following the, the directions.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:16:19]:
Because if there’s a hidden benefit to you remaining where you are, you’re gonna find reasons not to get into the car. Oh, I just need to do this. Oh, I just need to and you’ll end up staying where you are. No matter how good the directions are, no matter how powerful your car is, if you don’t if and even if you want to make the change, even if but deep down, there’s there’s some hidden benefit to staying where you are. You’re gonna stay where you are. That’s why it’s crucial when you’re looking to make any change. A good coach, good therapist will always work with you to figure out, is there is there any hidden hidden benefit here? Now they may not call it that. There’s all sorts of different ways that they may go about it.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:17:05]:
They may might might ask you, so yeah. So what what’s what’s the positives about doing this this thing that you wanna get? So what’s what’s the positives about smoking? Well, don’t be stupid. There’s nothing positive. Yeah. But if if there was if there was something that you got out of it, if there was some some positive from it, some advantage to it. Well, what do what do you think that might be? And just consider. See what comes up. It may be nothing comes up, in which case, brilliant.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:17:35]:
There’s no hidden benefit, no secondary gain there. Or it might be after you ponder allow yourself to ponder and consider, If there was a positive to doing this, what might it be? And just allow yourself to ponder and consider and accept what whatever comes up from your your unconscious, because it’s your unconscious which which controls all this anyway. You might start to uncover potentially some benefits. So that’s just something to think about. And, yes, the way to the way to consider it is just consider so if if there was a positive, if there was a benefit, if I got something out of doing this, as as horrible as my situation is, if there was something that’s getting me, what might be what might be a positive that I’m getting out of this? Doesn’t mean you have to stay in that situation. All it means is you need to take you need to make sure whatever your new situation is, you still get that particular benefit. And there are always gonna be plenty of other ways to get the benefits, But you need to be aware that you have got that secondary gain. You have got that hidden benefit there in the first place.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:18:48]:
Because if not, if it’s not addressed, no matter what change you make, you’re gonna fall back into your old habits again. Having fears. Sometimes having, having fears of I don’t know. Driving. If you’re terrified, you know, oh, I hate the thought of driving. Oh, no. I ride. Oh, it scares me.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:19:09]:
Just the thought of driving. You might find it frustrating. You might think, yeah, but I wanna drive. But some part of your mind is going, yeah. But if we’re terrified of driving, we won’t be asked to do all that driving. We won’t be asked to do this, that, and the other. That gets us out of doing it, and the fear remains regardless of what you do to address it. Once you’re aware of the hidden benefit, then you can start to find start to find ways to get that benefit without doing the old problem.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:19:47]:
Or you can work with your coach to to ensure that it’s included in whatever solution you come up with. But the crucial thing is to be aware of it. And even if you’re even if you’re thinking, that’s absolutely no way there could be any benefit to this. Just be open to the possibility. Even if you don’t have a benefit, somebody might get a benefit. And if somebody might get a benefit, it’s possible you could be getting a benefit even if you don’t allow yourself to realise it. Something to have a think about. So next time you’re thinking, I I wish I could find a way to overcome this, but I can’t.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:20:23]:
Every everything I do fails. Might be because of secondary benefits. Secondary gain, hidden benefits there. Worth a thought anyway. Just just worth considering. It doesn’t mean that is for sure. It certainly doesn’t mean that’s always gonna be the way to overcome the issue, but it can be. And just being aware of it helps the overall process because the more awareness you have of everything that’s going on, particularly in here, the better Noble you are to create the sorts of results that you want and to take back control of your life.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:21:04]:
That’s all I wanted to share. Hopefully, you found that interesting. What did you think? Do let me know. I’d love to know what you think of it. Please do remember to like, comment, share, subscribe. Give give the episode a rating. Let me know what you’ve you’ve thought. Has something come up from this? Has this triggered an e and e? That’s interesting.

Keith Blakemore-Noble [00:21:25]:
That explains that sort of things. If there are, let me know. I love reading these things, genuinely. And either way, thank you so much for listening. And take care. Look after yourself. And I will catch you in another episode very soon. Bye for now.